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Timaphillips

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Looking into buying a new GPU that'll help render Pro Walker GPU. My GTX 980 at home does a fine job in conjunction with my i7 4790k @ 4.4ghz. But that's my personal gaming PC. My work PC has an i5 with a paltry 750ti. Wondering if it's worth it to go the Quadro route or stick to higher end GTX cards specifically for SketchUp and Podium. I much prefer the GPU render of PRoWalker GPU so far vs doing a typical podium render. From what I've seen, SkectchUp has diminishing returns on performance when you throw higher end components at it- hence the 750ti. 

This is all assuming crypto miners ever let the prices go down again...

My gut says wait for Nvidia 11x series...or work buys my 980 and I use the cash towards a 1080ti at home 😉.
bigstick

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ProWalker needs the fastest Nvidia GPU you can throw at it.

My Windows laptop has a 1070 and it's fast. It's not omfg fast, but it's fast, and it's effectively like using Podium's QMC mode exclusively. It's a lot faster than QMC, but it can be a lot slower than the the normal modes, although you don't get blotches.

ProWalker is developing nicely, but it really depends on some serious hardware grunt that most people don't have. Justin can give you more guidance on particulars. I don't know whether there are diminishing returns with GPU technology either 😉

The Podium engine is also developing though, and it too will have GPU support in future.

Currently you need a fast CPU, and your i5 just isn't up to the job. No-one should use an i5 if they are regularly rendering!





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Timaphillips

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The big question is whether Podium would prefer Quadro or a GeForce card. GPU render is the clear future of heavy compute workloads vs CPU.

Quadro P4000 or P5000 vs GTX 1080 or GTX 1080ti. 
JustinSlick

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Definitely stick with GTX, it is far more cost effective at the consumer level.  The workstation cards don't even benchmark that much faster until you get to Tesla/Volta. 

I think there are legitimate benefits to those cards for certain applications -- I'm pretty they're engineered to run like 24/7, and apparently are capable of more precise calculations for stuff like deep learning and AI research. 

But at our level you are better off with GTX!

By the way, Iray benchmarks if you haven't seen them: https://www.migenius.com/products/nvidia-iray/iray-2017-1-benchmarks

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JustinSlick

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As for diminishing returns -- the beautiful thing about CUDA is that it scales almost perfectly.  I've seen benchmarks from Migenius that stated 96% scaling efficiency for Iray, which is pretty incredible.  So you really do almost double your performance by adding a second card... and on and on as you keep adding cores.

As for 1080 vs 11xx.... there are some pretty insane rumors about how powerful the 1180 will be. I don't think anything is confirmed yet, but I think I'd be hesitant to buy a 1080 right now, especially with the prices inflated.

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Timaphillips

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Miners have the cost of the 1080ti's out of control anyway. Which is why suddenly the Quadro's look competitive. They are out of stock on Nvidia's site, which typically means no longer in production- 11x incoming. Hoping they kneecap the miners with these GTX consumer cards so we can all afford them again. Heck, even an Titan XP seems reasonable vs a 1080ti at market prices right now! 

If CUDA count is king for rendering, then that's an easy way to look at it. 

Wish we had some sort of Podium benchmarks with hardware. I've searched for benchmarks on VRay, Blender and Lumion for rough comparisons but I'm not sure if Podium is designed the same way. 

Timaphillips

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3584 CUDA cores in a 1080ti vs 2560 in a P5000.

P5000 = $2,000
1080ti = $1,100 (current market price)

Not really a huge deal but worth noting, the Quadro run on much less power. 


JustinSlick

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Wish we had some sort of Podium benchmarks with hardware. I've searched for benchmarks on VRay, Blender and Lumion for rough comparisons but I'm not sure if Podium is designed the same way.


Wait sorry, Podium or ProWalker?

Podium would benchmark most similarly to Vray... oh actually I just remembered there are Kray 3 benchmarks!

http://www.kraytracing.com/kraybench/

Podium's underlying render engine is Kray 2, but I doubt the results would be much different.  Anyway, the developers are working on updating to Kray 3.  It's about what you'd expect... the CPUs with faster clocks and more threads perform better.  Xeon, i9 Extreme, Threadripper. (Wow it looks like AMD has all the i7s beat [eek])

And for ProWalker, there are the Iray benchmarks from Migenius:

https://www.migenius.com/products/nvidia-iray/iray-2017-1-benchmarks

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Timaphillips

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VERY helpful. Thanks!
bigstick

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Justin, some time ago we did have a scene that customers used to test the speed of their machines. It was a few years ago, but it was really fun and interesting!

Maybe we should start that again...

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Timaphillips

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Does Podium support AMD, specifically Threadripper? 
JustinSlick

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Podium does, yes.  Threadripper might get the best price performance right now actually... or at least near the top.

ProWalker is another story... it would still render (slowly) if an AMD CPU was the only thing available, but would be way more efficient on an appropriate NVIDIA GPU.


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JustinSlick

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Justin, some time ago we did have a scene that customers used to test the speed of their machines. It was a few years ago, but it was really fun and interesting!


Yeah that would be a great thread to have... you have any test scenes in mind?  I can start it off with some of the office machines, plus my laptop.

Probably should agree on a preset and resolution too.

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davew

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Reply with quote  #14 
This is a good study done by Puget Systems, a computer reseller and maker in Seattle. 
https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-NVIDIA-Iray-193

Read the FAQ on this page.  It is all about speeds of Iray and recommended Nvidia GPUs.  It also talks about scaling your GPU (adding more GTX cards) and how much faster you can expect Iray to run.

As Justin observed, the GTX 1080ti is far more cost-effective than any Quadro.

ProWalker GPU's engine is Nvidia's Iray.

Also,  if you are using ProWalker GPU 1.1.2 with Denoise, make sure you update your Nvidia drivers. This will make a difference.

We have a variety of CPU/ GPU systems in the Cadalog office.  One of them is an MSI laptop with GTX 1070 laptop version. 

The attached image is the StudioScene_Kitchen  model available from the sample model pages here:
http://www.suplugins.com/podium/studio-models.php

This took 45 seconds to render the image at 1920 X 1080 with a laptop GTX 1070.  ID mode/ Denoise on.  Notice any artifacts/ blemishes .  No. 

Even full PR model (unbiased path tracing) at 700 samples took less than 20 minutes.

What you find is that a GTX 1070 will be slow at creating movies with hundreds of frames.

Attached Images
png StudioSceneKitchen-basic-id-100.png (1.99 MB, 12 views)

Timaphillips

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Reply with quote  #15 
Interesting. Just rendered the same scene in Id with Denoise and at 45 seconds I got through ~80 samples. This is with desktop with an i7 4790k (4.6Ghz) and a GTX 980. Surprising. I thought the 1070 was about the same as a 980. 

I have also noticed the preview mode seems to render faster than the actual render button. ??
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