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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hello Everyone, It's been a while! 😃 

I've been trying to render a scene but i've been getting these light patches around the floor area in some locations and cant figure it out why....

The floor and walls have thickness so i dont think thats the reason. I also rendered the room without furniture and those patches are not there... 

Here are some images of the issue. 

Also feel free to let me know anything else i could do to improve 😃 

Thanks so much guy!  LOUNGE TEST 1.jpg  CRC FINAL 2018-10-03 23065700000.png  CRC FINAL 2018-10-02 21012000000.png 

bigstick

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Reply with quote  #2 
Hmm, interesting.

Have you run the Analyze tool (spanner/wrench icon) to see what's happening in the scene?

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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
Hmm, interesting.

Have you run the Analyze tool (spanner/wrench icon) to see what's happening in the scene?


I had not, 

This is what it shows, anything i should be looking in particular? I've never used this tool before [frown] 


Screen Shot 2018-10-04 at 11.18.06 AM.png 

bigstick

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Reply with quote  #4 
The number of LEMs is a giveaway there, and the material with LEM and reflection needs to be fixed. This is actually impossible in reality.

LEMs simulate light sources. Physical materials are not usually light sources. Lighting filaments do actually glow, so in cases like that they could be one of a few examples of an appropriate use of LEMs as physical materials.
However LEMs should only be used in small numbers in simple rectangular or triangular shapes. COmpelx shapes are triangulated by the render engine, and complex triangulated LEM surfaces are computationally expensive and unrealistic.

In that scene, you should have just one LEM surface - outside the window. Personally I would use Podium Tools>Reset Materials and reset all your LEMs. Rerender and then put a single large invisible LEM outside the glass.



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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
The number of LEMs is a giveaway there, and the material with LEM and reflection needs to be fixed. This is actually impossible in reality.

LEMs simulate light sources. Physical materials are not usually light sources. Lighting filaments do actually glow, so in cases like that they could be one of a few examples of an appropriate use of LEMs as physical materials.
However LEMs should only be used in small numbers in simple rectangular or triangular shapes. COmpelx shapes are triangulated by the render engine, and complex triangulated LEM surfaces are computationally expensive and unrealistic.

In that scene, you should have just one LEM surface - outside the window. Personally I would use Podium Tools>Reset Materials and reset all your LEMs. Rerender and then put a single large invisible LEM outside the glass.





Still happening after resetting all LEMs and leaving only the outside window one.  [frown] 

CRC FINAL 2018-10-04 11444700000.png 

JustinSlick

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Reply with quote  #6 
Does this still happen with something other than the interior preview preset?  I feel like there's a non-zero chance this is just a sampling issue due to the preset.

Try with interior default at a lower resolution and see if it resolves it.

Also, in terms of time management - A test render like this should never take an hour!!

Instead of doing a test render at 2884 x 1354 with the preview preset, it would be so much more efficient to do the test render at something like 800x376, and use the interior default.  It should only take a few minutes and it will actually give you a more accurate depiction of what your final will look like.

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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinSlick
Does this still happen with something other than the interior preview preset?  I feel like there's a non-zero chance this is just a sampling issue due to the preset.

Try with interior default at a lower resolution and see if it resolves it.

Also, in terms of time management - A test render like this should never take an hour!!

Instead of doing a test render at 2884 x 1354 with the preview preset, it would be so much more efficient to do the test render at something like 800x376, and use the interior default.  It should only take a few minutes and it will actually give you a more accurate depiction of what your final will look like.


Thanks for the tips and help! 

Tried other presets, different materials and still having the same issue. 

CRC FINAL 2018-10-04 23204900000.png  CRC FINAL 2018-10-04 23081900000.png 

bigstick

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Reply with quote  #8 
Both of the images you have posted use the interior preview preset. I never use this - ever. 10 Minutes is still a long render time for this type of image.

I also don't understand why you have such a massive difference in render time between 2 pretty much identical images with the same preset. The first isn't much off twice as slow as the second.

What are you using refraction for? You only need this for glass which is modelled as solid with thickness. Reset that as well, and rerender.

Then check the Analyze model report.



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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
Both of the images you have posted use the interior preview preset. I never use this - ever. 10 Minutes is still a long render time for this type of image.

I also don't understand why you have such a massive difference in render time between 2 pretty much identical images with the same preset. The first isn't much off twice as slow as the second.

What are you using refraction for? You only need this for glass which is modelled as solid with thickness. Reset that as well, and rerender.

Then check the Analyze model report.




The reason why i use preview it's because it usually gives me the fastest render. I just render again without any refractions and on interior default preset. It took almost one hour .... to time increased a lot using default instead of preview. Light patches still there tho grrr

CRC FINAL 2018-10-05 09584200000.png 



bigstick

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Reply with quote  #10 
This is strange - it shouldn't work like this at all.

What does Analyze say?

If you notice the final render,  the effect is far less pronounced. If the interior preview is taking 10 minutes, and the interior default is taking an hour, it means that the final antialiasing pass is taking most of that hour. For this type of scene, that shouldn't happen. When the scene renders, you should see that the final antialiasing (edge smoothing) pass seems to be taking forever. You should see a lot of white speckles on certain elements during the render process. This will give you some clues about which elements are problematic in terms of speed.

What are your material settings for Edge smoothing for your plants? This should be set to default or Low.In fact default should be the setting for all your materials.

Something is still not right here. Remove bump from your materials as well. Where have your components come from? Are they from the Browser or the 3D Warehouse?
If those wire tables in the background are not fron the browser, the polygon count could be massive. Something about the scene setup here is causing a long render time and the unusual lighting.

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JustinSlick

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Reply with quote  #11 
Yikes, I don't know if I've ever seen a render that small take that long, especially for a relatively simple model like this.  If you upload it here: http://suplugins.com/podium/support.php  I can take a look tomorrow.
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lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinSlick
Yikes, I don't know if I've ever seen a render that small take that long, especially for a relatively simple model like this.  If you upload it here: http://suplugins.com/podium/support.php  I can take a look tomorrow.


Hey! Thanks so much, i'm uploading the file right now. 
davew

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Reply with quote  #13 
In regards to preview preset and speed testing

I remember that the interior_previews were changed as an experiment with Final Gather variable lowered.  But doing this turned out to be a mistake and previews take longer in some cases (possible with refractions).
You might download the legacy presets and use the older interior_preview_105 if you want speed.
http://www.suplugins.com/podium/preset-downloads.php


Alternatively, temporarily reset edge smoothing to low using the Podium Extra utility.  That will speed up rendering but lower the quality of edge smoothing. 
davew

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Reply with quote  #14 
I think the problem was the floor and possibly the rug. Although both are grouped and material is assigned to the group, if you open the group, the back side of the floor and rug were facing out.  So I reversed both faces and reapplied materials.
I'm not sure why you are not using the sun light to illuminate the interior since you have such a large window.  I suppose you are trying to avoid shadows.
Note - this image looks grainy because I set the low edge smooth globally using Podium Extras.  I just did that to speed up the rendering.

I also attached a ProWalker GPU version that was rendered before I reversed the floor and carpet face.  You can see how ProWalker using Iray is not forgiving about exposed back side faces.  But the lighting is very clean.

Third image is SU Podium (low edge smoothing) using sunlight.

Also, nice modeling.  So much detail.  This might be a great Panorama Tour model.

Attached Images
png LUCAS - CRC FINAL-cadalog-reverse-floor-face.png (3.18 MB, 18 views)
png LUCAS - CRC FINAL-prowalker.png (2.55 MB, 15 views)
png LUCAS - CRC FINAL-cadalog-sun.png (3.43 MB, 15 views)

lucastoronto

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davew
I think the problem was the floor and possibly the rug. Although both are grouped and material is assigned to the group, if you open the group, the back side of the floor and rug were facing out.  So I reversed both faces and reapplied materials.
I'm not sure why you are not using the sun light to illuminate the interior since you have such a large window.  I suppose you are trying to avoid shadows.
Note - this image looks grainy because I set the low edge smooth globally using Podium Extras.  I just did that to speed up the rendering.

I also attached a ProWalker GPU version that was rendered before I reversed the floor and carpet face.  You can see how ProWalker using Iray is not forgiving about exposed back side faces.  But the lighting is very clean.

Third image is SU Podium (low edge smoothing) using sunlight.

Also, nice modeling.  So much detail.  This might be a great Panorama Tour model.



Thanks so much!!! You're a life saver! 

Here's an updated render. I turned on sunlight , it does look more natural with it. 

I thought about doing a pano but some of the objects are not from the library and they dont have such nice materials and dont render well. 

Thanks a lot again everyone! Lesson learned with this one 😃 

LUCAS - CRC FINAL 2018-10-09 13244500000.png 

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