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jlo

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Reply with quote  #1 
Questions, comments and speeches all welcome.
(btw, podium doesn't count the day label in the info bar... it was 25 hrs to render... Painful but beautiful imo )
Yalis1.png

arqcova

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Reply with quote  #2 

25 HR it's a lot! now when I look something like that I cancel it and check my model,  check for imported models, lights, purge and fix problems, use plugin Clean3 http://extensions.sketchup.com/content/cleanup%C2%B3

 

only left the geometry that appears and affects the scene on the file, maybe you have a lot of stuff outside of the frame? render works everything on the file

 

and in a day render it's better to turn off any unnecessary lights, and it will help the render time!


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jlo

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Reply with quote  #3 
I actually did shrink the model from a 300+ meg model to a 65 meg model and deleted a ton of stuff outside of this scene including lights. It didn't help [wink] I didn't try that plugin though. 
there are imported models and a bunch of podium browser stuff in it and it's a high quality render as well but yes -25hrs seemed excessive to me as well. I'm doing a different scene from the same model now and I expect it to take even longer. Hopefully the lighting is right and thank god I have a backup machine to render on. the test renders take 10 min alone... at 400x200 preview mode. I'm not freaking out about it on this one but it's crazy to note. 

How is the image itself? the only thing that really stands out to me is the texture on the ceiling wood is in the wrong direction (which is fixed in the model but not the render) but everything else seems pretty good to my eye. I definitely like the overall lighting of the scene. 

bigstick

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Reply with quote  #4 
It’s a good image, but not worth the render time IMO. I don’t think the high preset was worthwhile.

The scene is slightly over-lit which is washing out the indirect lighting, which is the thing that benefits from the high preset. Look at the back of the rightmost chair for example. The main source of light is coming from the opposite direction, but the back of the chair looks washed-out and flat.

Also the texture on the upper edge of the timber boxes is the wrong direction. If you are going to spend this much time on a render, arguably you ought to spend more time on the model -switches, sockets, skirting boards etc.

You really ought to randomise the chairs, tables, and stuff on them. This is precisely why we created the Nudge plugin which is part of the Podium Extras plugin. You would be surprised how much difference it can make. Download from here: http://www.suplugins.com/podium/free-plugins.php

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Nick00

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Reply with quote  #5 
I'm pretty certain all this artificial lighting made that long render time. How many light sources do you have? Can you post the analyse model report?
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ravenclawdesign

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Reply with quote  #6 
i agree with the comments from Nick00, bigstick and Argcova.

25 hours wow...you've got patience...lol

i suggest all the lights need to be "switched off" and replaced with possibly a transparent LEM near the openings..and / or placed behind the "camera lens" to illuminate the interior. LEM's works alot better than light points.

i would also increase the reflection on the floor surface. This helps with creating depth to the furniture pieces so that it doesn't appear flat.

w.r.t the model itself...only model up what will be in view of the image. Our minds will fill in the blanks and create the environment, wondering about the architecture on the outside.
no real need to model what you dont see.




jlo

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thank you all for the replies! 

Yes, I pretty much agree with everything said. 
- I definitely missed the turned texture on the wood pod. That's annoying (but not worth a re-render). Great catch! I did catch the turned textures on the wood above the camera and it's fixed in sketchup but bad in podium. Any ideas? I'll include a screencap. 
- I'll include the analysis at the end (I can't attach on the website in either html or txt file)
I assume that I still have too many lights in the neighboring section. I should have probably swapped them with a lem. I don't remember what I was thinking when I rendered it out - maybe I wanted accuracy. 
I did get a 2nd machine to offload timely renders and I'm researching building a small render farm now but I know podium doesn't support it natively. I've also switched from high quality to fine with AA and that brings it down to about 6 hrs but I am looking for premium images for portfolio use etc and i'd like to send these back to the client at some point (that job is currently finished). I'm also not harping on the time even though it's the easiest talking point of the project. At this point, it's portfolio work and not client work so i've been running em over night. In this case, I prefer quality over time. 
- I'll include an attachment of the neighboring section which I am still trying to lock down a balanced lighting. There are maybe 5 different types of lights used and a couple of lems to help and it's super hard to get a balence out of everything without some being over exposed and others underexposed etc. When any changes are made - it affects the overall composition and changes that mid-range balance I'm looking for. The podium preset also changes the lighting slightly as do smaller to larger renders so it's a bit of trial and error for me at this point.  
- As far as being slightly overlit, you are spot on. (I'll include another attachment for this 2 of before I lit it up more [wink] )
I added some lems and brightened everything. I added a lem behind the camera which is what is washing out things close to the camera. That chair -is- more washed out than I like but it's a compromise for me. The original picture certainly looks more accurate as far as lighting but, I feel the original is too dark and it needs to be beneficial for the purpose of selling a restaurant to a client. The place should be reasonably well lit and look like a place that is open for business and a place one would want to eat... so I lit it up more. 
- as far as nudging and randomizing, again I agree here and I almost always do this (I have in other parts of the model in fact) and I'm fairly certain I originally got that tip from you reading it over and over - over time but I think I was more focused on the other stuff (as above) and I want it to look more new and "less lived in" at this point plus this section is super simple overall. If I re-render, I'll randomize more. 
- you may be right about adding reflection or maybe more contrast to the floor texture. it's fairly washed out. 
-This is a large model (originally over 300MBs) and I'm pulling a bunch of perspectives off of the same model. I've been splitting the model into it's own file at render time and deleting everything out of the scene that wouldn't affect that render.

Thank you everybody for your input and I am listening and considering all input. 



SU Podium model analysis:

SUMMARY
========================
Light Sources:
140 point lights, 0 are turned off.
0 spot lights, 0 are turned off.
1 LEM material
1 Normal LEM
0 Hidden LEM
0 High Intensity LEM

Materials:
1 light-emitting material(LEM)
45 reflective materials
4 materials with refraction

Alerts:
0 DTR problems
0 unexploded images
0 psd materials
0 no extension texture
0 wrong extension
0 materials with Both LEM and reflection (can crash)
0 High Intensity LEM applied to materials (may crash)


DETAILS
=================
Materials Details:
Light-emitting materials(LEM)
"" used in 7 faces

Reflective Materials:
"" used in 200182 faces
"" used in 19337 faces
"" used in 4875 faces
"" used in 10 faces
"" used in 32484 faces
"" used in 44 faces
"" used in 1 face
"" used in 62 faces
"" used in 8122 faces
"" used in 1060 faces
"" used in 4 faces
"" used in 24643 faces
"" used in 19292 faces
"" used in 9044 faces
"" used in 108 faces
"" used in 36432 faces
"" used in 17226 faces
"" used in 816 faces
"" used in 246 faces
"" used in 410 faces
"" used in 2064 faces
"" used in 5840 faces
"" used in 8 faces
"" used in 14216 faces
"" used in 381 faces
"" used in 2289 faces
"" used in 534 faces
"" used in 2 faces
"" used in 5890 faces
"" used in 23718 faces
"" used in 7788 faces
"" used in 888 faces
"" used in 40 faces
"" used in 480 faces
"" used in 8 faces
"" used in 2424 faces
"" used in 450 faces
"" used in 123 faces
"" used in 924 faces
"" used in 636 faces
"" used in 1281 faces
"" used in 192 faces
"" used in 348 faces
"" used in 60 faces
"" used in 4 faces

Materials with refraction:
"" used in 19337 faces
"" used in 4875 faces
"" used in 246 faces
"" used in 5890 faces


GENERAL MODEL INFO
==================================

Operating System: Windows 8.1 or Windows Server 2012 R2
Sketchup Version: 16.0.19912
SU Podium Version: 5.519
There are 691514 faces, 144 materials, 19 pages, 89 layers, 44 groups and 63 component instances in the model.

Attached Images
jpeg Yalis5BreakWoodTexture.jpg (360.00 KB, 6 views)
png Yalis7 2017-09-29 00354800000.png (2.58 MB, 7 views)
png Yalis5Break 2017-09-23 12170300000.png (2.34 MB, 9 views)

bigstick

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Reply with quote  #8 
Your LEM behind the camera is too strong or too close to the scene. The shadows it is casting are too noticeable. You need to move it back and/or reduce the power. You want a nice soft, even, diffuse light.

Have you tried using the HDR presets? They are generally nicer. 

Try putting some invisible LEMs outside the windows to boost interior lighting levels. It's what a lot of professional visualisers do.

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jlo

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Reply with quote  #9 
Maybe I'll do another render (I'm afraid) and try moving the lem and apply other notes.
I do occasionally try the hdr presets but I don't have a workflow or much experience on how to adjust in photoshop to take advantage of it. Is there a tutorial anywhere?
At this moment, I'm running a test to see if the hdr presets take more or less time than the non-hdr preset and checking how the images compare.  
thx
arqcova

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Reply with quote  #10 
Also try turning off some of the 140 point lights (!!!) that will improve your render time
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ravenclawdesign

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Reply with quote  #11 
Hi jlo

im no boffin myself...im self taught on photoshop, and with some help from the folks on the forum and youtube, and just playing around, you'll make good progress.
This was my original HDR present raw render

Student Res 2017-09-24 08013800000.jpg 

i then opened it in Photoshop, selected "image" "adjustments" and then "HDR toning"

HDR toning setting.jpg  HDR Toning 02.jpg 

click on the drop down arrow at "Local Adaptation" and select "Equalize Histogram"

this was the final outcome...of that minor change. Whether it was the right way of doing it..im not sure. but i liked the outcome. 
HDR Toning 03.jpg 

I hope that helps, you can also play around with the color balance, curves, levels, etc. under "image" -> "adjustments"


arqcova

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Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks for sharing!
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Nick00

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Reply with quote  #13 
Well 140 point lights is quite a lot for this small scene [wink]
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bigstick

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Reply with quote  #14 
Are you using the omni grid by any chance?

If so - I wouldn’t recommend that if you want realistic results...

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jlo

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Reply with quote  #15 
Here are the rest of the pics in the set. It'll make sense why so many lights!

Thx for the HDR tip. I'm def going to keep it in mind. I tried it on my last image and it wasn't good for that one but I can definitely see it being good when needing brighter images. We can use some general podium HDR workflows in general...

Yalis6Break 2017-09-30 14542700000.png  Yalis7 2017-09-29 00354800000.png  Yalis8_Break 2017-10-02 19270800000.png  Yalis8_BreakScene20 2017-10-02 23272700000.png

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