SU Podium Forum
Register  |   |   |  Calendar  |  Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #1 
I was looking to upgrade my system sometime over this summer (when I actually have time to do anything) and I was wondering how the new Ryzen CPUs did for rendering in Podium.

I haven't seen anyone test it yet, but hypothetically, for the price, it's really REALLY good. Can anyone confirm?

My current system is an i7 4790k (4 core, 8 threads) with 16gb of ddr3 RAM at 2133mhz. The reason I want an upgrade is because I'm a student, and I need to be able to use my computer most of the time. If I have to wait 2 hours per render and I have to do 15 renders, that's a long time I can't work on other school projects or work related projects. I was thinking that Ryzen could cut my render times in half (approxamently).

Can anyone tell me if Ryzen is worth it for Podium?

Thank you! Your response is very much appreciated.
bigstick

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 10,075
Reply with quote  #2 
None of the development team has tested the Ryzen CPU, but it ought to work really well. There's not reason to suggest there will be an issue.

I've seen the reviews and it looks like an excellent product. Be aware that you will need to replace your motherboard as well as the CPU, so you can't just compare the CPU price against a comparable Intel model. You might be better off simply upgrading the i7 CPU - if your motherboard supports it.

__________________

That which does not kill us makes us stronger
-Friedrich Nietzsche

bigstick

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 10,075
Reply with quote  #3 
If you want to cut your render time, render to a lower resolution and use  On1 Resize to make the image larger.
Check out the reviews.

Image resolution is the single most important factor regarding speed. You may well be rendering much larger images than you need. Anything higher than 3000x2000 is probably way too big - unless you want a large high quality print.

Try comparing render times for a smaller image. I suspect software might give you better performance for less money.

__________________

That which does not kill us makes us stronger
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Timaphillips

Registered:
Posts: 61
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
If you want to cut your render time, render to a lower resolution and use  On1 Resize to make the image larger.
Check out the reviews.

Image resolution is the single most important factor regarding speed. You may well be rendering much larger images than you need. Anything higher than 3000x2000 is probably way too big - unless you want a large high quality print.

Try comparing render times for a smaller image. I suspect software might give you better performance for less money.


But you have to render at a larger resolution to get rid of blotches I thought. I'm interested in something like so I don't need to run QMC render at some insane resolution to get rid of blotches and grain. 

How would this be different than what's already included in something like Photoshop or Corel?
Timaphillips

Registered:
Posts: 61
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arwat23
I was looking to upgrade my system sometime over this summer (when I actually have time to do anything) and I was wondering how the new Ryzen CPUs did for rendering in Podium. I haven't seen anyone test it yet, but hypothetically, for the price, it's really REALLY good. Can anyone confirm? My current system is an i7 4790k (4 core, 8 threads) with 16gb of ddr3 RAM at 2133mhz. The reason I want an upgrade is because I'm a student, and I need to be able to use my computer most of the time. If I have to wait 2 hours per render and I have to do 15 renders, that's a long time I can't work on other school projects or work related projects. I was thinking that Ryzen could cut my render times in half (approxamently). Can anyone tell me if Ryzen is worth it for Podium? Thank you! Your response is very much appreciated.


I also have a 4790k. It's overclocked stable on air at 4.5GHz. The jump from my other PC i5 Haswell CPU was huge in rendering time. I was also looking at Ryzen's 16 threads for what i assume would be a huge jump in performance in Podium. 

Seeing how Podium uses all my threads at 100%, I'm hopeful it would scale all the way up to Ryzen's 16. 

A tip for you, if you are looking to not lock up your PC during rendering:

When the render begins, open up Windows Task Manager and set affinity to one less "CPU" (thread) in "Set Affinity." I find it's enough to let me use Chrome and other programs freely without much rendering time impact. 


JustinSlick

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 259
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
How would this be different than what's already included in something like Photoshop or Corel?


Just a different enlargement algorithm...  The major difference is selective edge sharpening, whereas Photoshop uses bicubic sampling for enlargement.  On1 and Alien Skin Blow up both look very convincing if you're printing large and will be viewing from a reasonable distance.  Up close you can kinda see where the technique breaks down, and it looks a little "filtered" if you're really nit-picking.  They are still very good tools, and preferable to bicubic IMO.

Quote:
A tip for you, if you are looking to not lock up your PC during rendering:

When the render begins, open up Windows Task Manager and set affinity to one less "CPU" (thread) in "Set Affinity." I find it's enough to let me use Chrome and other programs freely without much rendering time impact.


That is a really great tip.  People occasionally ask about this, wow I never realized it was that easy to re-distribute CPU load.  Also this. (Obligatory Podium Server plug) [biggrin]

__________________
What's New in SU Podium?
What's New in Podium Browser?
bigstick

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 10,075
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timaphillips

But you have to render at a larger resolution to get rid of blotches I thought.


No.

To get rid of grain with QMC, yes. For the other (biased) presets certainly not.

Tools like On1's Resize have specialised algorithms that offer superior performance generally to most others.

Read the reviews, check out the trial version.

__________________

That which does not kill us makes us stronger
-Friedrich Nietzsche

arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timaphillips


I also have a 4790k. It's overclocked stable on air at 4.5GHz. The jump from my other PC i5 Haswell CPU was huge in rendering time. I was also looking at Ryzen's 16 threads for what i assume would be a huge jump in performance in Podium. 

Seeing how Podium uses all my threads at 100%, I'm hopeful it would scale all the way up to Ryzen's 16. 

A tip for you, if you are looking to not lock up your PC during rendering:

When the render begins, open up Windows Task Manager and set affinity to one less "CPU" (thread) in "Set Affinity." I find it's enough to let me use Chrome and other programs freely without much rendering time impact. 




Thanks! That helps a lot! However, it's more of a matter of doing a bunch of renders. That's my problem.
arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
If you want to cut your render time, render to a lower resolution and use  On1 Resize to make the image larger.
Check out the reviews.

Image resolution is the single most important factor regarding speed. You may well be rendering much larger images than you need. Anything higher than 3000x2000 is probably way too big - unless you want a large high quality print.

Try comparing render times for a smaller image. I suspect software might give you better performance for less money.


I have to render at certain resolutions (for example, 11x17 renders at 300dpi. All final images we render have to be at 300dpi. That's how my school and work do it. I forget what that is in exact messurmants, but I think it's about 3000x5000 at max)so it takes a while, depending on where I want to put the render on the page and the size needed for a given area. All of my preview renders are much smaller (1900x1200ish on "preview" settings) but it still takes 30ish minutes to render the projects I'm working on now. The printers we use here print really high quality and I have to print in the sizes given. Trust me, I would LOVE to render smaller, but since we print everything, I gotta do what I'm told to do. Also, I have to print in AA presets (for example, "interior AA"), which takes longer. On top of all that, I make my models very complex (it's a bad habit I'm trying to break) which makes it even worse.
arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
None of the development team has tested the Ryzen CPU, but it ought to work really well. There's not reason to suggest there will be an issue.

I've seen the reviews and it looks like an excellent product. Be aware that you will need to replace your motherboard as well as the CPU, so you can't just compare the CPU price against a comparable Intel model. You might be better off simply upgrading the i7 CPU - if your motherboard supports it.


I am aware that I'll have to replace my motherboard, CPU and RAM. Probably going to sell my current set up to a classmate of mine who needs a computer with something better than an old i5 in it and use that money to buy Ryzen if I decide that it's worth it.

Do you know how the old AMD CPUs did in Podium? I know they're a bit old now, but I was wondering if they performed well (for their time) compaired to the competition. Does Podium work the same on AMD as Intel (not like "Intel is better" kind of thing. More like "Does Podium use all of AMDs power?" If that makes sense...)?

Thank you!
Nick00

Avatar / Picture

Maître érudit
Registered:
Posts: 3,265
Reply with quote  #11 
300 DPI is for magazine prints, quality photos etc. If you print presentation boards that you typically stand 2 feet away 150-200 will be more than enough. You can always change the resolution in Photoshop [wink] (or better like Jim suggested, with perfect resize)
__________________
Podium Tech. Support
arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick00
300 DPI is for magazine prints, quality photos etc. If you print presentation boards that you typically stand 2 feet away 150-200 will be more than enough. You can always change the resolution in Photoshop [wink] (or better like Jim suggested, with perfect resize)


I would, but I was told by the guy who literally wrote the book on Podium (who also happens to be my professor) to render at 300dpi for our final prints for my school projects and my work says 250dpi minimum for our presentations, since we sit down with the client and look over everything every closely.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to render at a smaller resolution, but no amount of photoshopping will bring pixels that were never there to begin with to life.
bigstick

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 10,075
Reply with quote  #13 
Actually I think you are wrong there. That's precisely why On1 Resize was developed.

To get the equivalent of 300dpi (and to the best of my knowledge there are no 'dpi police') you need to create renders which are massive. This is beyond what students can be expected to do because the hardware required to do this in an acceptable period of time is prohibitively expensive - you need a render farm.

On1 Resize should be able to do this for you.

Don't knock it until you have tried it.

__________________

That which does not kill us makes us stronger
-Friedrich Nietzsche

arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
Actually I think you are wrong there. That's precisely why On1 Resize was developed.

To get the equivalent of 300dpi (and to the best of my knowledge there are no 'dpi police') you need to create renders which are massive. This is beyond what students can be expected to do because the hardware required to do this in an acceptable period of time is prohibitively expensive - you need a render farm.

On1 Resize should be able to do this for you.

Don't knock it until you have tried it.


Render farm? A 11x17 image at 300dpi is 3300x5100. Its big, but not render farm big. A few hours is all that's needed to render an "AA" image with Podium with a i7 4790k CPU overclocked from 4.0ghz to 4.8ghz, probably a lot less time on an Intel extreme CPU (like the 5960X, x99 Xion CPU (I don't like xion, so I don't know the names),or Ryzen (1700X). That's the largest image I will produce for ether my school or architecture firm I work for on sketchup (as far as I am aware at this time). I can render a scene like this in 2 to 3 hours on a $1000 custome desktop. It's not that expensive, comparatively speaking. It can get expensive if you want it faster, but for a few hours, it's not bad. I get what you're saying, I really do, but we don't do hugely complex images. It's, at most, a room or two at a time, or a floor plan. And I think you're thinking the image has to be way bigger than it actually is.

And there is no way to bring back pixels that were never there to begin with. It I took a photo with my 20 mega pixel DSLR, I can't resize it to 40 mega pixels. I mean, I can, but it wouldn't increase the quality of the photo, and if I tried to print something at twice it's original size it would look very bad. It's like that old movie/tv tech that detectives use; "zoom and enhance." It doesn't exist and is physically impossible, unless I missed something in the past few months.

Edit: read the next post. When I say "physically impossible" I mean that you cannot retain the same image quality as the original, no matter how hard a program tries. It is much simpler, and presumably faster, to render at a higher resolution, drop it in photoshop, do out edits that we have to do to make the image look better, and print it. At least, that's what everyone has told me. I'm not saying the program "On1Resize" is bad. It looks very good and I may try it out for some photography things I have planned just to test it. But it's just not what we use in school or at my firm.
arwat23

Registered:
Posts: 27
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigstick
Actually I think you are wrong there. That's precisely why On1 Resize was developed.

To get the equivalent of 300dpi (and to the best of my knowledge there are no 'dpi police') you need to create renders which are massive. This is beyond what students can be expected to do because the hardware required to do this in an acceptable period of time is prohibitively expensive - you need a render farm.

On1 Resize should be able to do this for you.

Don't knock it until you have tried it.


And on the topic of On1Resize; the output time I've seen on that program negates the time it would take to render a larger image, from what I've seen in YouTube videos. It also has the negative effect (according to one video) of making the images not look any better when you're up close, which both my professor and clients will be up close to the images. Is it the worst thing? No. It seems quite good for what it is. But it is not as good as just rendering streight from Podium at a high resolution (or, as the reviews said, taking a photo with a bigger sensor).

The problem with this software is that it's all guesswork. It guesses what is needed and then applies it to the image to make it bigger, and it does a pretty good job of that, I won't deny that. However, from my own experience as a photographer and graphic designer, my professor's experience with working with Podium to develop better ways to render and giving them feedback, and my firm's experience with sketchup, AutoCAD, Revit and photographers images, as well as my college's newspaper that I use to work for, they all seem to think that just rendering/creating a larger image from the start makes the image look the best, and for sketchup, looking the best is the most important thing, at least for what I do.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation: